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Date d'inscription : 17/05/2007

MessageSujet: philosophy idealist idealims   Ven 23 Mai - 16:44


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How to Be an Idealist
Edited by Garshepp, Ramy Mehelba, gopal, Monica and 2 others

Anyone could have some strongly held ideals, but not be an idealist all the time. Ideals are not just rules to be broken. The idealist almost all of the time has strong beliefs or character even if not expressed and probably lives by holding definite ways, perhaps some like absolutes, laws. "One could be willing to fight and die for important ideals". Such a person would neither like to, nor often easily, compromise strong political or religious beliefs, morals, laws, etc. If most beliefs are not definite and persistent, then the person is not an idealist as meant here.

Agreeing with the idealistic person's ideals could bring calm and happy agreement -- but opposite answers may bring some level of diplomatic persuasion, discussion or even real disagreement whether that disagreement is expressed or not.

Compare to the "opportunist" who may say or do anything for personal gain, ie: like "winning at all costs" to seek a perceived advantage with "the outcome justifies the means". That is not even close to idealism.

The habitual "optimist" is hopeful and usually looking on the bright side, but idealism is not necessarily positive at all. Sometimes the idealist may see no hope in accepting the other side's demands or purposes, and then that idealism may become "fatalistic" -- like fighting and going to war -- but "consistent to certain strong ideals". Here are some ways to be an idealist.
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1Believe in some form of definite way of doing or understanding things. Determine your personal standards of accuracy and consider whether they are rather absolute. This can help assemble your strong concepts and idealized feelings as clearly as possible.

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2Be dependable in your efforts to reach your goals on your principles.
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3Avoid depending upon doing or accepting favors like buying a resistant opponents help. In the long run you can not depend on such persons.
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4Try not to compromise your ideal with opponents who will not accept your strong belief. Do not trade your real beliefs lightly (Do not give up your ideals.) to get concessions.
Do not accept views that you find to be wrong and therefore probably unacceptable, and so do not "give something important to get things that are less important."
In politics, for example to get, or to attempt to get, what you want by "any means" possible is not acceptable, as that implies lack of honest principles.
Do not accept the middle of the road compromise, which is an incorrect way -- but instead maintain your definite principles and morals without hypocrisy.
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5Be well-mannered, patient and sensitive to other people's feelings and opinions/beliefs: Saying, "You have a right to your own opinion." will often lower the harshness of argument of the two sides.
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6Avoid wasting time arguing with people of strongly opposite views.
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7Defend your beliefs especially if they are absolutes, i.e.: possibly this involves religious absolutes or political principles.
The other side may try to wear you down, such as trying to get you to give up and quit trying.
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8Be very persistent in presenting your "facts" without becoming angry and upset.
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9Be fair and balanced by treating everybody the same: and as much as possible accept individual differences of opinion and belief.
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10Realize that you may be enough of an idealist to see the opposite view as not worth much consideration, and though that seems harsh, you as an idealist will probably be quite persistent, not wishy-washy.
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11Be kind and loving, when you must disagree, though you may feel that agreeing is not at all "practical" in your understanding of the facts.
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12Refine your efforts and come back to try again on another day, if necessary.

Add your own method
If your opponent is a not an idealist, then you are likely up against someone who insists upon what they call "practical considerations" but where you will not give in just "to get something done."
Understand that it takes strength and may be difficult, but it is well worth living your convictions.

To the pragmatic/practical person you, the idealist, are "impractical". Such people may rudely call you an ideologue, ignorant or childish because they have no absolutes, and probably can not understand your views.
Do not be flexible or adaptable to the broad view, but maintain a narrower view based on truth, and absolutes.
Some people will seem to use propaganda techniques like saying that "morals have no place in politics..." -- i.e., you may hear that: "You can not legislate morals." Some may say "there are no absolutes, no normal, no right or wrong...", but consider whether legislation in a representative democracy generally requires the loser to have the "morality of accepting majority decisions" (like: 50.1% wins), and so the losing side (49.9% or such) accepts the other side's winning without a rebellion or violence; that is based on a strong morality to never stop trying for your ideals.
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Masculin Nombre de messages : 21582
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: philosophy idealist idealims   Ven 23 Mai - 16:45

The Idealist Attitude

+ Coalescence
– Naiveté Expression Cardinal
Positive Traits: Ability to coalesce ideals, Cheerful, Optimistic, Finds new ways of doing things, Makes a positive mark in the world, Sees the bright side of life, Sees the world as how it "should" be,

Negative Traits: False expectations, Greatly disappointed, Out of touch with real world, Naive, Pie in the sky, Unrealistic outlook

Idealists search for meaning in life, and they see it everywhere. Skeptics look for causal connections between things in space, and are therefore mechanistic in their philosophy. On the other hand, Idealists look for connections in time that are meaningful coincidences. When two significant things happen at once in their lives, they believe the universe is trying to tell them something. For instance, if an Idealist is walking down a path and stubs his toe, he may wonder why it happened and what it means. He does not believe the universe is accidental, so there must be a reason. He may believe it means there is some stumbling block or impediment in his life, so he will search his thoughts or current events in his life to see if there is something holding him back or tripping him up.

Many Idealists are full of aphorisms — wise sayings. They quote these to others when they believe the occasion demands it. Such things as "It's all for the best", or "It will all work out", or "People do the best they can" are some examples. They believe the universe is a friendly place, and they are friendly toward it and the people in it. Idealists in the extreme have a utopian view of the world. They see things through the proverbial rose-colored glasses. They see the world as a beautiful place, and they see how the world could be more beautiful, if only more people would get together, work together, and trust.

The Opposite of the Idealist Attitude is the Intellectual Center. Idealists are sometimes anti-intellectual, meaning they regard reason and logic as limited, unable to encompass the totality of existence. Idealists and Intellectually centered people comprehend reality in quite different ways, both limited. When both are present in the same person, it can create internal contradictions and inconsistencies. The Idealism does not analyze the world — it sees the overall pattern of it. The Intellectual Center does analyze data from the world, without seeing the big picture. The two working against each other in people causes them to narrow their interests to something compatible with both, or to switch back and forth between the two.

Idealists are concerned with integrative images and they project their images into the outer world. That is OK if the images are an accurate representation of reality, but if their view of the world is a fantasy-land, and they make it out to be a wonderful place when it isn't, then they are in for trouble. One of the problems that Idealists, particularly in the Negative Pole, constantly face is that of disillusionment. Since they tend to see the world with the proverbial "rose-colored glasses", their bubble of dreams and illusions is often pricked by the needle of reality. This destroys their beautiful imaginings. This is very disconcerting to them, because they have a need for a coherent world-view, despite a penchant to live in a dream world or fantasy-land in their own heads.

The complement of the Idealist Attitude is the Skeptic Attitude. "For believers, no explanation is necessary. For nonbelievers, no explanation is possible." That statement sums up the difference between the two extremes of Skeptic and Idealist. Trust is a big issue with both Attitudes. Idealists rarely check things out or question them. Idealists think they already have all the answers inside themselves, so there is no use investigating the world to discover them. Idealists are rarely suspicious. Rather, Idealists give others their trust and if it is ever lost it is because the others proved themselves untrustworthy. Even then, Idealists are liable to invoke extenuating circumstances so that they can still believe in the goodness of others and the beauty of the world. Skeptics are more penetrating in their thoughts, but Idealists get the overview, the big picture. Skeptics and Idealists are both concerned with issues of "what is reality" and "what is illusion". Skeptics see the physical universe as reality and anything else as illusion. They say mind is a product of matter. Idealists see principles and ideas as the ultimate reality, and everything else as illusion. They say the physical universe is a product of an infinite mind.

Positive Pole (Coalescence)

The Positive Pole of the Idealist Attitude is +Coalescence. If this word is unfamiliar to you, it means merge, combine, amalgamate into a single body or group. Idealists see the world and everything in it as becoming more unified. In the most extreme expression of this Pole, Idealists see themselves as one with everything. They take a philosophical perspective on all issues, and try to see the wisdom in every situation. Such people subscribe to the "holistic philosophy" — the idea that the whole world functions like a single organism. All the parts are connected in space and coordinated in time, operated by a single mind.

Negative Pole (Naiveté)

The Negative Pole is -Naiveté. People in this Pole have taken their trust and innocence to an unrealistic extreme. They see beauty where it isn't, and simply deny that ugliness and evil exist. An Idealist will tell you that evil is justified at a higher level of reality, that things that seem meaningless have meaning that we cannot fathom, that something that appears foolish has a wisdom that is beyond us, and that ugliness is transformed at other levels of reality into beauty. A Skeptic will ask that these things be proven scientifically, but of course they can't be. People in this Pole have many illusions, and they suffer much when they are disillusioned. They live by platitudes rather than reality. The fear here is the fear of questioning anything — questioning in the sense of both investigation and suspicion. One must question things or one will not be able to distinguish between reality and illusion.

Another name for the Negative Pole is -Abstraction. This shows up when Idealists are unable to get their thoughts to run in sequence. Their minds are in such a "fog" that they cannot keep their thoughts on the subject at hand. They wander around in generalities and ambiguities, unable to get specific. Consequently, people in - Abstraction are likely to believe in or trust anything that seems plausible or looks pretty. So here we are, back to -Naiveté.

The fear that drives -Naively is the fear of ugliness and evil, which do not fit into an Idealistic world view. The world just should not be this way, right? It is indeed possible to imagine a better world. But the world is the way it is, and there is no use denying it or dreaming it away. The technique for overcoming -Naively is to consider and apply the Positive Pole of the Complementary Attitude, +Investigation. Get down in the world and get dirty. Open your eyes to the things you would rather turn away from. Stop dreaming of a better world, find out about the real world, and then maybe you can make it a better world in the Positive Pole of +Coalescence. It does not solve anything when one justifies ugliness and evil by saying it is reconciled at a higher level of integration. Best reconcile it at this level.

-- Phil Wittmeyer

Channeling About Idealists

"Idealists" look at the world in a cardinal, expansively intellectual way, applying great ideas to what they see, measuring reality against them.

Idealist has a positive pole of "coalescence" and a negative pole of "abstraction." Like spiritualists, idealists are visionaries; idealists see the world in terms of what it "should" be, whereas spiritualists see the world in terms of what it "could" be. The spiritualist attitude is more open-ended about how things will all wind up looking, but simply wants to move forward feeling that anything is possible. With the idealist, it's not so much anything, but a specific thing or set of things. The idealist easily sees new ways of doing things.

Many people are allergic to the word "should," associating it with control freaks who are telling them what to do. In this context, however, seeing the world as it "should" be is not necessarily an imposition of limitation; in its positive side, it provides an insightful alternative.

Let's say you run for political office. If you are a spiritualist and you inspire people with just the idea that anything is possible, that's great, but eventually, people are going to want to know what you have in mind. The expression axis is more about the mind (intellect), so the idealist puts forth an idea: "We could do this, and look how much better things would be if we did." Idealists see how the world could be made better, and therefore, idealists change the world.

Both spiritualists and idealists, in their positive poles, have a warm cheeriness about them; you can see the correlation between them and the roles that share a position on the same axis. Spiritualist attitude is like the priest role applied to attitude, warm and inspirational. Idealists are cheerful and optimistic, full of ideas, like the role of sage. The classic idealist in literature is Don Quixote. He was considered to be a madman, but he kept following his ideals, and maybe they weren't so crazy after all; they just weren't what people were accustomed to. No matter how often he was knocked down, he got back up because his ideal gave him optimism.

"Abstraction," the negative pole of idealist, is impractical, pie in the sky, a little like the faith of the spiritualist. The idealist in abstraction has an abstract concept of how things could be changed, but is not enough in touch with the real world to know what would actually happen. In the positive pole, "coalescence," the idealist pulls everything together; things coalesce around this new idea and change actually occurs.

Idealists are often at the forefront of new thought movements. In the positive pole, idealists may propose something that looks impractical but, in fact, is actually doable; it's just that others have not had the vision to step out of the box and see it. Idealists may aim too high, but still manage to incite some progress because of their insistence that things could change. There was a movement in the nineteenth century and also in the 1960s toward utopian communities; these were often spearheaded by idealists who didn't see any reason why society couldn't be ordered in a better way. On the ground, they often did not work as planned, yet many of the people who participated in the experiments advanced as a result. Society was changed, at least incrementally, if not radically. Sometimes you have to actually build the thing and try it out before you move from abstraction to coalescence, and see what people will actually do. However, if you don't try at all, you never move forward. The willingness to experiment and take chances is the hallmark of the positive-pole idealist.

Q: In order to put their ideas into action, is an action-axis trait required in the idealist?

A. It is required on the part of someone involved, but not necessarily the person who is the visionary. You often find idealists paired up with someone who likes the ideal but who also has a strength in practical matters.

Idealists are often attracted in relationships to realists or pragmatists, because they complement. Let's say an idealist is married to a realist; the idealist says, "This is what we should do," and the realist reminds him of what the real facts are, what they're actually dealing with, perhaps helping the idealist forge a vision that is more workable. Or, married to a pragmatist, the idealist might be the one who pushes them forward, and the pragmatist might be the one who makes it work, solving problems. Idealist and skeptic can also be a good pairing if the skeptic is not overly closed-minded. Since the idealist probably sometimes slides to skeptic and vice versa, there can be sympathy toward one another. They are both intellectual, and the idealist can appreciate the concerns of the skeptic, using them to make the ideal more workable.

Any combination of attitudes works fine when people are mostly in their positive poles. In the negative poles, there can be particular friction in certain combinations, such as spiritualist and cynic. We mentioned the quarrelsome nature of skeptics and cynics, but they generally do pretty well with those who share their axis--for example, cynic and realist is a good combination (cynic and pragmatist is also fine). However a skeptic who is heavily in of suspicion or a cynic strongly in denigration can be hard for just about anyone to deal with.
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MessageSujet: Re: philosophy idealist idealims   Ven 23 Mai - 16:47

The Dreamy Idealist

My Type
My Career
Dreamy Idealists are very cautious and therefore often appear shy and reserved to others. They share their rich emotional life and their passionate convictions with very few people. But one would be very much mistaken to judge them to be cool and reserved. They have a pronounced inner system of values and clear, honourable principles for which they are willing to sacrifice a great deal.

Joan of Arc or Sir Galahad would have been good examples of this personality type. Dreamy Idealists are always at great pains to improve the world. They can be very considerate towards others and do a lot to support them and stand up for them. They are interested in their fellow beings, attentive and generous towards them. Once their enthusiasm for an issue or person is aroused, they can become tireless fighters.

For Dreamy Idealists, practical things are not really so important. They only busy themselves with mundane everyday demands when absolutely necessary. They tend to live according to the motto “the genius controls the chaos” - which is normally the case so that they often have a very successful academic career. They are less interested in details; they prefer to look at something as a whole. This means that they still have a good overview even when things start to become hectic. However, as a result, it can occasionally happen that Dreamy Idealists overlook something important. As they are very peace-loving, they tend not to openly show their dissatisfaction or annoyance but to bottle it up. Assertiveness is not one of their strong points; they hate conflicts and competition. Dreamy Idealists prefer to motivate others with their amicable and enthusiastic nature. Whoever has them as superior will never have to complain about not being given enough praise.

» Get career advice for your type

As at work, Dreamy Idealists are helpful and loyal friends and partners, persons of integrity. Obligations are absolutely sacred to them. The feelings of others are important to them and they love making other people happy. They are satisfied with just a small circle of friends; their need for social contact is not very marked as they also need a lot of time to themselves. Superfluous small talk is not their thing. If one wishes to be friends with them or have a relationship with them, one would have to share their world of thought and be willing to participate in profound discussions. If you manage that you will be rewarded with an exceptionally intensive, rich partnership. Due to their high demands on themselves and others, this personality type tends however to sometimes overload the relationship with romantic and idealistic ideas to such an extent that the partner feels overtaxed or inferior. Dreamy Idealists do not fall in love head over heels but when they do fall in love they want this to be a great, eternal love.

Adjectives that describe your type
introverted, theoretical, emotional, spontaneous, idealistic, dreamy, effusive, pleasant, reserved, friendly, passionate, loyal, perfectionist, helpful, creative, composed, curious, obstinate, with integrity, willing to make sacrifices, romantic, cautious, shy, peace-loving, vulnerable, sensitive, communicative, imaginative
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Date d'inscription : 17/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: philosophy idealist idealims   Ven 23 Mai - 16:47

Idealist temperament
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Idealist temperament is one of four temperaments defined by David Keirsey. Correlating with the NF (intuitive–feeling) Myers-Briggs types, the Idealist temperament comprises the following role variants (listed with their corresponding Myers-Briggs types): Champion (ENFP), Counselor (INFJ), Healer (INFP), and Teacher (ENFJ).[1]

Contents [hide]
1 Description
1.1 Stress
1.2 Traits in common with other temperaments
2 See also
3 References
4 External links
Idealists are abstract in speech and cooperative in pursuing their goals. Their greatest strength is diplomatic integration. Their best developed intelligence role is either mentoring (Counselors and Teachers) or advocacy (Healers and Champions).

As the identity-seeking temperament, Idealists long for meaningful communication and relationships. They search for profound truths hidden beneath the surface, often expressing themselves in metaphor. Focused on the future, they are enthusiastic about possibilities, and they continually strive for self-renewal and personal growth.

Idealists strive to discover who they are and how they can become their best possible self -- always this quest for self-knowledge and self-improvement drives their imagination - and Idealists yearn to help others make the journey too.

Interests: Idealists tend to study the humanities. They seek careers facilitating the personal growth of others, whether through education, counseling, or other pursuits that promote the happiness and fulfillment of individuals and society.

Orientation: The lives of Idealists are guided by their devotion to their personal ethics.[1] They are altruistic, taking satisfaction in the well-being of others. They believe in the basic goodness of the world and of the people in it. They take a holistic view toward suffering and misfortune, regarding them as part of a larger, unknowable truth, a mystical cause-and-effect. With an eye toward the future, they view life as a journey toward a deeper spiritual knowledge.

Self-image: The Idealists' self-esteem is rooted in empathetic action; their self-respect in their benevolence; and their self-confidence in their personal authenticity.

Values: The emotions of Idealists "are both easily aroused and quickly discharged."[2] Their general demeanor is enthusiastic. They trust their intuition and yearn for romance. They seek deeper self-knowledge and want to be understood for who they are behind the social roles they are forced to play. They aspire to wisdom that transcends ego and the bounds of the material world.

Social roles: Idealists seek mutuality in their personal relationships. Romantically, they want a soulmate with whom they can share a deep spiritual connection. As parents, they encourage their children to form harmonious relationships and engage in imaginative play. In their professional and social lives, Idealists strive to be catalysts of positive change.

Idealists experience stress when their desire for cooperation and harmony within their group conflicts with their desire for personal authenticity.[3] Since Idealists often go to great lengths to try to ensure that everyone's needs are met, they can become frustrated when others fail to do the same, either by acting independently of the wishes of the group, or by trying to enforce the wishes of the group without regard to individual needs. This tension is especially evident in the two mentoring types (Counselors and Teachers).

Idealists tend to come by their best ideas through a combination of intuition and feeling, so they may have difficulty explaining how they reached their conclusions. They may become frustrated, or even insulted, when others fail to share their enthusiasm and instead want an explanation of the reasoning behind the Idealist's insights. Since inspiration is not a conscious process, the Idealists may not have an immediate explanation, even though their reasoning is sound, and so may feel dismissed and undervalued.

Idealists have a strong drive to work for the betterment of a group or organization, and can feel as though they are losing their identity if stuck in an environment that requires conformity.[4] This is especially evident in the two advocating types (Champions and Healers).

Traits in common with other temperaments[edit]
Keirsey identified the following traits of the Idealist temperament:[1]

Abstract in communicating (like Rationals)
Idealists focus not on what is, but on what could be or what ought to be. They see the world as rich with possibilities for deeper understanding.

Cooperative in pursuing their goals (like Guardians)
Idealists believe that conflict raises barriers between people, preventing society from reaching its full potential. Idealists seek harmony in personal and professional relationships, working toward solutions that respect the needs of all parties involved.
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